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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  September 7, 2010 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT

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good afternoon to you. i am dylan ratigan. today the writing is on the wall for the democrats and more importantly for the country. new polls show the dems likely to lose big in november, but the american people the only actual losers in this unfolding political drama as neither party, not the republicans, not the democrats, and obviously not the president offering any plans to actually fix what ails our economy or/and the politically empowerment of those profiting from our country's destruction. plus, rahm emanuel for mayor? developing news for a possible exit strategy for the white house chief of staff. at least he'll have a job if he quits after a democratic massacre in november. also, jumping the shark. the man who wrote the notorious sitcom in u.s. history, or episode i should say, defends
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what he did with the fawns. maybe she's right. the show starts right now. well, apparently the president thinks if we keep printing money we don't have, ignore the ongoing extraction that's plaguing our country, eventually the economy will turn around. forget fixing the system that keeps all the capital with the select few who gamble it or incentivize those with capital to take it out of the country? why would you do that? call it free trade. the president's latest proposal, i should say, a spending tree of $50 on new infrastructure spending. now that we don't need the infrastructure, it's interesting to spend the money we don't have while you leave a giant hole in the bucket seeping out of the country. the president's plan to rebuild
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150,000 miles of roads, 4,000 miles of rail line. critics lining up calling the president's plan an ineffective one that will plunge us further into debt. of course, the republicans no more ready to address our real problems, just happy to take the job of screwing up the country if they can get it in november themselves, on behalf of the same corporations that pay off the democrats. less than one-third of americans believe the country is on the right track. they know both democrats and republicans are bought and working for special interests who profit from bringing harm to our country. more than half, in fact, disagree with the president's economic policies, but it is not just the white house in the dog house. more people have confidence in the big banks sat this point, 10% of america says they trust the banks, than they go in congress at 9%. those are the two lowest rated. makes sense since they work so closely together. the banks make money by costing
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your your job and taking your tax money. good arrangement they have, except none of the numbers ultimately matter. the bottom line is there's a failure to acknowledge the actual problem in the country. and also these false solutions and political back and forth only further obscure the public's understanding of what is really wrong with the economy, the fact that the financial markets, the fact that investment in this country is not only nonexistent, but there's an incentive to take money out of this country. the end result, it becomes more and more unlikely the current leaders will do anything to fix america, in my view. joining us from washington, s h simon rosenberg and doug holtz. simon, i'll begin with you on the political temperature. we'll get to the economics in a second.
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if you compare how it felt in september of '94 and what it felt like when you went to bed, what it looks like in the paper, and what it looks like now, can you give us a little bit of color? >> it doesn't feel the same, dylan. the difference is in the intervening period, we had a period of conservative government, where the american people learned what it was like to live under a fully conservative nation. everything got worse. and so i think what's difference is the opinion of the republicans are much worse and much more negative than they were in 1994. i think the real question for me is will the republicans really be able to take advantage of what have been clear democratic missteps? so far i don't think either party is where they want to be going into fall elections. >> doug, simon brings up an interesting point. the popularity of democrats falls like a rock. at the same time, when you look at the popularity of republicans, the republicans are not winning of the people abandoning the democrats. how do you interpret the
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political reality for democrats and republicans as americans continue to abandon both? >> well, i think the political reality is number one that both democratic and republican incumbents are very unpop already at this time. the second the key electoral segment is the independents who have fled the republicans in 2006, 2008, and now are running back as fast as they can, not because republicans are all that appealing to them, but largely because they are deeply unhappy with what's gone on under democratic control of the congress and the white house. i think there's an enormous amount of repair to be done on the democratic side. >> if you were to accept a version of my premise that money is leaving america, it is not coming into america, and that -- >> you want me to accept your version of the premise? >> listen, we know money is leaving. but if you were to accept my version of the premise that the fact that we have not dealt with china, the fact that we have too
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big to fail banks, the fact that we have an employer based health care insurance monopoly, those are the root causes of the economic dysfunction of the country. do you believe either party has the balls, excuse melany langua to engage the formidable companies? >> i think the key to getting this right is to stop the quick mix mentality and engage in deeply committed policies of the united states. we have an economy growing for nearly a year. it offers no hope to the millions of people who are unemployed. i think to become ruthlessly committed to growth, to provide people with jobs and not pretend that somehow a tax credit here or a program here is a panacea is the number one prior to for the nation. >> simon, do you feel like either political party has the audacity to engage, again, a
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long list of systems from 1950 that may have made sense then, but it has been 60 years and a lot of things have changed. >> i think you have to look at the president's latest proposals in a much larger context. look at what the democrats have done in the past few years. health care reform -- >> i don't accept those as reform. >> i'm a big fan of yours. >> i just want to make sure we're on the same page. >> i understand. i think in terms of the effort undertaken and the recognition that the systemic serious problems are facing the country, the democrats have at least made significant efforts to try to address this in a systemic, structural way. we may disagree about whether or not the end result is going to get us where we want to get to. but there's a recognition in the democratic party that there has to be a whole any economy, whole new economic strategy for the 21st century. the strategy we had in the 20th century isn't going to work anymore. >> we with stop there? can we stop there? that's a lot to chew on.
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as far as the democrats are concerns, if we accept your appraisal, why do you think they're in as bad of a political situation as they are? go ahead. >> i think as much as the democrats understood that there were structural problems that needed to be addressed, the solutions we came up with haven't worked the way they wanted. the democrats believed there woib recovery and people would be better off than they were. in part, there was a miscalculation of the early days in the obama administration about what happened in the eight years previous to the recession. we had ten years of no wage and income growth in the united states. that's never happened before in all of our history. i think the party that gets it right over the next few years is the going to be the one as doug said, has got a long-term strategy that is focused on the challenge of the 21st century, that's going to raise the boats for all people, not just for the people at the top, dylan, as we talk about all the time. and i don't think either political party is there yet. i think the democrats are a lot closer than the republicans. and they better make the case in the next two months or it will
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be an unhappy fall this november. >> if i could, number one, if you look at any of the evidence. the democrats have no hope for the fall. historically the electorate that makes their decision about what they think are the big issues -- >> fair enough. >> the big issues are the economy. it's baked in the cake. spending, it's baked in the cake. accountability in washington. baked in the cake. so i don't think much can be done in the near term. i think the fundamental problem the democrats don't appreciate is that with stimulus, any president would have acted. so i don't think the president gets much credit for doing something that any president would have done something. they did something appallingly poorly constructed and took their eye off the ball. and inspread of caring, went and did a health care reform that is deeply unpopular. did a financial reform that is deeply unpopular and highly questionable in the ineffectiveness. they're not winning votes by doing those things. >> the problem, however, and this is my view of why the
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republicans' polling numbers have not improved as the democrats' polling numbers have deteriorated rapidly, having many parties on all these years, as abysmal as i found the democrats' policies to be, not addressing the employer-based health care system, not addressing the incentive to take money out of the country, all this nonsense, the republicans almost every time have no better alternative or had a worse alternative, doug. in other words, are we setting ourselves up to quit drinking by beginning to snort cocaine in addition to drinking? >> i think the key for republicans for conservatives comes in in three forms. let's get back to principals. the republicans depray ad lot of principals during their time in power. that's clear. number two, let's get away from the politics of personalities.
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let's stop talking about sarah palin all the time and have a debate about ideas. what the are solutions americans deserve for their long term well being? and number three, find someone who can give compelling voice to those ideas, and have that be the standard bearer. >> do you think that's where we are? >> unfortunately, what interrupted that, is the democrats ruled so poorly that the republicans are now back in play quickly. and they're trying to do that faster than may be possible. >> can i pick up on that? what he is saying is the republican party is not ready to govern. what you saw with john boehner two weeks ago after listening to every republican come on your show in the last few months and talk about spending and deficits, john boehner proposed a plan to increase the deficit by $4 trillion over the next ten years and do nothing about spending at all. and the level of hypocrisy, lying, whatever the words are you want to use, where they're saying, the number one job of the republican party is to take
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on deficit and spending the leader of the republican party comes out with something that doesn't either, right? so i think to what doug was saying, and i want to agree with him, is these guys aren't ready to come back to power. the tragedy is the last time they were in power, right, we had historic deficits, we saw wages and incomes go down. we saw the economy go to hell. now the same guys are put back to power during enormously difficult economic times. >> simon, i don't disagree necessary lif other than the fact that democrats have proven themselves equally unqualified to govern, which is why we find ourselves having this conversation. >> let me take a crack at what doug was saying. what doug was saying was that simon, who is a very skilled washington based spin meister is doing a washington-based spin. the american people think the republicans are dead toy to
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govern. >> there's nothing in the bolls that show they want republicans. it's just the political system gives us no choice. if there was an against line in the polls, and you could force both political parties to improve the quality of candidates by tossing people in the primaries, you think john boehner would be leading the republican charge in november? >> i think i understand your point, but i don't see a dylan ratigan movement for speaker either. >> they don't have a choice. >> they've got you. >> i'm not running for office. what do you mean, they got me? they can watch my tv show. that's about it. >> i think the serious part o this conversation should be that "a", republicans know the challenges that face them. "b", they will and can step up. that will be the ultimate test. or it will be a short live victory. >> a real enjoyable first conversation back from my vacation. >> welcome back, dylan. >> thank you. really, truly. coming up here on "the dylan ratigan show," i won't be leading much of anything, but
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i'll lead the tv show every afternoon at 4:00. a possible exit strategy for white house chief of staff rahm emanuel. a big announcement out of chicago sparking new speculation about whether emanuel will quit after midterm elections. also, a pastor charging ahead with plans to burn the koran on 9/11 despite the military's view that it will increase the risk to our own soldiers overseas is the appropriate way to remember 9/11. to burn the koran. ♪ [ male announcer ] ever have morning pain slow you down? introducing bayer am, an extra strength pain reliever with alertness aid to fight fatigue. so get up and get goin'! with new bayer am. the morning pain reliever. time to face the pollen that used to make me sneeze... my eyes water. but now zyrtec®, the fastest 24-hour allergy relief, comes in a liquid gel. zyrtec® liquid gels work fast, so i can love the air®.
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a possible exit strategy for rahm emanuel and a pastor defying the u.s. military plans to burn the koran on 9/11. indulging in his emotions is more important than anything, i suppose. our first topic, developing news out of chicago. the mayor of chicago, richard daley says he will not be running against. he says it feels like the right time. i wonder what the feeling is. if it's a feeling of multiple phone calls from rahm emanuel. now the president's right hand man may take a play for the seat. take a listen to mr. a emanuel in tril saying a stint at chicago mayor is a jop he's always wanted. >> first of all, let me say it this way, i hope mayor daley seeks re-election. i will work to support him if he does not seek re-election. but if he doesn't, one day i would like to run for mayor of the city of chicago.
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that's always been an aspiration of mine. >> e annual said he was surprised by daley's decision. ari melburn and correspondent for the nation magazine. ari, is this a rahm built exit strategy we're looking at? >> well, no one knows, and i don't think anyone the the position to know is going to admit that publicly. obviously, rahm emanuel has a tough job that he, many people feel, has made tougher in the way that he's run it and the way he's chosen to be very bombastic. not only with opponents, but really with a lot of people close to obama who supported obama. he's not super popular in washington. but maybe he doesn't want to be in washington forever. >> does this matter? i don't know. one of those things. i look at it.
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on one hand it's interesting to talk about. on the other hand. i'm not sure if i care? >> well. it is interesting. you have a guy who sacrificed his own political career. he was definitely up and coming, very likely would have been the next speaker of the house after nancy pelosi. at least, if the democrats were to keep the house. and he gave that up to be the chief of staff. i thought it was a mistake at the time. president obama, i hate to make it about him. he ran to transcend politics and he pick this is guy, rahm emanuel, who sends his political enemies dead fish in the mail. this could be beneficial. it might be good for barack obama if rahm emanuel goes some place else. being chief of staff is gruelling. he admitingly always wanted to be mayor of chicago. this could be a win-win for obama and emanuel. >> let's talk about book burning, shall we? always, of course, a touch of controversy when somebody burns
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a book. especially the wrong one. the pastor of a small florida church says he will be burning korans this weekend. this iz way of marking the anniversary of the september 11th attack. general petraeus warns that would display u.s. troops as the video will be replayed overseas. saying it will undoubtedly be used to inflame public opinion and insight violence. you think a rebuke from the top u.s. commander in afghanistan would be enough to put the stop on the burn the koran day. the pastor says the event will go ahead as planned. ari? what do you say? >> i think it's really sad. i think it's a crazy time. like anyone burning books has issues. if he were burning the right book, like an al qaeda training manual, then you would say, okay, i get it. you're commemorating 9/11 by burning something associated with the enemy of 9/11. even that would be weird.
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i would wonder about the pastor. the fa that he's burning a religious book changes the character. he is speaking out about the issue. it can have international ramifications. the political issue, as we all no is we had a summer of muslim baiting. it's a terrible thing. there are members of the conservative party and leadership that have gone along with it and stoked it. it's a real problem. >> would we will talking about this, matt lewis, if petraeus hadn't? >> we might. it was an issue before petraeus spoke out. i'm always skeptical of the notion that anything we do will make them hate us more. because frankly they're going to hate us and try to kill us no matter -- >> who? muslims or fundamentalists terrorists? i still can't figure out who hates me. >> good distinction, dylan. i'm certainly not talking about
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muslims. >> i know you're not. >> i think in this case it could be true. if you were a moderate muslim and saw images of some american christian pastor burning a koran, it could be something that might incite people to become radicalized. my question to this pastor is he just stupid, or is this a shrewd pr move to get publicity? is. >> i'll jump in on this. there's a problem with the media always wanting to tell these stories. once petraeus and others step in, it's a national debate now. but the real thing is -- >> i can tell you, ari. we had our morning meeting at 9:30678 our inclination was not to go near it until petraeus picked it up. we weren't obliged to do so, but it affected our news judgment today.
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>> yes. when you have the commanding general in afghanistan speak out about book burning and koran burning in the u.s., that changes the story, too. if the lowest common denominator is a stupid thing that they're doing, then we're going to hear about this up to the midterms. we have to be clear about that. in some cases the media can take a strong roll in calling it out. you're going to hear about some other thing next week and the week after. we need responsible people in leadership and both partying to stand up against this stuff. >> i'm happy that nobody tries to tie this guy to being a conservative or republican. you look up. has he ever made a political donation? does he have a yard sign in his yard? then you argue that tea parties. >> clearly he's working for
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breitbart. it's a joke. i agree with you, matt. let's call it the crazy pastor wants to burn a book. let's not talk about it anymore. hope you have a good rest of the week. up next, a quick change of pace. the made who made the fonz jump the shark is defending the most infamous episode in tv history. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 what if every atm was free? tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no more $2, $3 fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no more paying to access your own money. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it'd be like every atm in the world was your atm. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 the schwab bank high yield investor checking(tm) account. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 zero atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 a great interest rate. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no minimums. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 the biggest thing in checking since checks. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 open an account at 1-800-4schwab or
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get more. feel more. welcome back. one of the things where you just know it when you see it. the exact moment when your favorite tv show is veered off course into the absurd and jump the shark. you may have heard the expression. you may have used it yourself. do you know where it comes from?
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the year was 1977. "happy days" was starting its fifth season. arthur, the fonz was the coolest guy on tv until he got on water skis while wearing leather and jumped a shark. >> here we go, fonz. i'm readed for the ramp. are you sure you want to do it? >> there he goes! >> well, after that people just couldn't look at the fonz the same way. maybe it was the shorts. now fred fox, the writer behind the infamous episode defending himself. he said at the time no one protested. not one of us said, are you out
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of your mind? all successful shows eventually do start a decline. but this was not happy day's time. he may have a point. jumping a shark in los angeles when you're a milwaukee based tv show may not be creative high point. but the show survived six more seasons after that notorious sail over fin. perhaps we should all be so lucky. still ahead, back to school, why too many parents get a failing grade when it comes to their kids' education. first, can you buy your way to happiness? or away from unhappiness. the bottom line about cash and your mental health, and in today the american economy and the an author's new book, fubarnomics.
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time for man versus internet where you hit me with your comments via twitter. you play internet. i play man. on the story of a koran burning. isn't burning holy books the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater? more or less, yeah. you have something to share, log on now and tweet us your thoughts. find me, @dylan ratigan. one of the oldest debated questions, can money buy you happiness? according to a new study, it kind of does. but only up to a low threshold. researchers say $75,000, or i would argue equivalent depending on where you live is the magic
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number. the further a person's income drops below that benchmark, the less happy they are. they also found making more does not make you feel better. it means less leisure time, less time for yourself, less time for a family, less time for your friends. and those are the key factors in being happy. you agree with the study? >> yeah, i do. it supports all the research that's been around for 30 years. >> does that mean that we should work wildly to save up enough money early in our lives to go retire and be happy?
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there's a great quote who says it's insane to think a man who spent his life trying to earn a billion dollars spends his second life trying to spend a second. it initially provides a shot of pleasure. then diminishing returns. it's not a good investment to spend your time and energy trying to make lots and lots of money. >> in the process of making lots and lots of money, sometimes you lose your friends and family. is that a problem? >> no. that's not a problem. who needs friends or family? that's not a problem. what people think is they can do it all. of course, you can't. if you're working 17 hours a day and preoccupied with all the things that are toward getting more money, you'll pay
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consequences. you don't know until it's too late. we overvalued what it means to make a lot of money. >> how would you begin to correct this? if you sit with an addict and say more money is not going to make you happy, they may agree with you intellectually. i know. i made all this money. i'm not any happier. i don't know what else to do. >> i spend my life focused on this subject. i run a company called the energy product. we go into companies and try to help them energize employees. we don't help them by telling them pay them more money. we say meet their core needs. we undervalue all of them. it doesn't make them more engaged. 20% of americans feel fully engaged at work.
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80% of americans are relatively or totally disengaged at work. obviously we're not meeting their core needs. >> at the end of the day if you're a kid coming out of school or a big shot in some industry or whatever it is or you want to be one of those people, how do you fight the basic instinct, that equality that people have, that has taken over the culture. >> by giving time and energy. there's a difference between pleasure on the one hand. pleasure is something you get in a moment. there's comfort involved before you with get the satisfaction. you see these people playing tennis at the u.s. open. they look like they're having the greatest life in the world. the amount of pain and suffering
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they put themselves through to be able to have that result may exceed -- the question i would ask a tennis player is the same i would ask everybody out there who thinks money is the most important thing to get. is the life you're after worth the price you would pay to get there? i'm suggesting the more you invest in your family. the more you invest in taking care of yourself physically. the more return you get. it's not instant like money. >> i was thinking to myself about all the poll tigs. all they do to try to create the pleasurable reaction and refusing to have a conversation about the hard work that may have to be done to reform our economy, to end this. the lists are terrible.
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we live in a world where the willingness is almost nonexistent. the hunger for instant gratification is overwhelming. so we are in the business of servicing each other around those hungers. the next step in human evolution is to go from it's about me right now to it's about us over time. >> i agree with you, tony. you know i agree with you. but it's a pleasure to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> just ahead here. just ahead, cenk uygur joins us with his daily rant. grading america's parents. why more moms and dads need to step up to help their kids succeed in school, or so says the young turk. ♪ every time it's so right ♪ well, it feels so good [ female announcer ] when you have a softer bath tissue, you can enjoy going more... while still using less. introducing new charmin ultra soft. new charmin ultra soft has an ultra-cushiony design
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welcome back. little daily rant for you. ready or not, it's back to school for millions of kids across the country now have. as all parents either shed a tear or do a happy dance or maybe both, our friend cenk has a message for you. mr. ycenk uygur, the floor is yours. >> "the new york times" has a story about schools in new york. they are led by teachers instead of principals. it's a worthy effort. i like they're trying something
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new. barack obama has a race to the top, which is a new way of trying to find schools that work and promote those. some liberals are against it because they worry about what it will do to public schools. some republicans are against it because it's proposed by barack obama. they can blame the teachers, the principals, the unions, the government, a lot of people. we also have to partly blame ourselves. let's look at the abysmal numbers to get a sense of how bad it is. in n "the ney york times" story they talked about the charter school in brooklyn. that school has 22% of last year's eighth graders that passed the test in english, statewide tests in english. only 13% passed in math. now, those numbers are terrible. they're abysmal. city wide it doesn't get much better in new york. only 37.5% passed in english.
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46.3% passed in math. disaster on top of disaster. those are totally unacceptable. now, when you go nationwide, the numbers don't get much better. the usa spends the second most amount of money among developing countries in the world. so it's not that we're not spending enough money, but ranked 23rd in 15-year-old achievement. which, again, sucks. there's a long list of countries that are above us in education, you know. you can look at australia, belgium, hong kong, czech republ republic. the list goes on and on. what can we do to fix this? how do we get personal improvement? not just government wise. but in our own lives. i want to tell you a story about my dad and myself and give you a sense of what you can do. as somebody who has kids in school, you should demand that they get straight a's.
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that they get a 4.0. that's what my dad demanded of me. that's what he demanded of himself. what happened? my dad started in a little town in southeastern turkey near the serian border. he had nothing to his name. neither did his family. they relied on hard work and education. from that little town he wound up getting into a good school because of good greats i in istanbul. he turned that into a graduate school in america and wound up getting great jobs afterwards. why? because of education because he demanded something more of himself. and his family did. he instilled that in me. i would get a test score of the 98 and he would tell me, where did the other two points go? some people may find that oppressi oppressive? it told me excellence was demanded of me. it worked. i got into columbia law school and once in a while i substitute
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on the "the dylan ratigan show." >> you shouldn't tell your friends it's resulted in slumming with me, cenk, but it's a pleasure to see you. many other things that you do. are you finished? i do have questions, but i don't want to interrupt you either. >> real quick. we wound up having a successful show coulded the young turks online. my class meats are united states congressmen, running google, hedge funds in new york, they weren't from any rich families. they just got straight a's and went to good schools and got good jobs. any of you can do that. whether you're in new york or texas or arkansas. tell your kids to get straight a's. they can do it. you have to believe in them. if you believe in them. that's the results you will get. i want everybody to understand the american dream is still possible. but we have to expect it of our kid
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kids. >> can i say a few things? >> thank you for the lovely picture of the old turk. was that his big network debut? >> yeah, i think so. that makes my day. he looks like a handsome fellow and happy man. particularly this generation of parents, when you look at the gated communities being built in the country where it is against the rules to have children because they don't want to pay taxes. they want to be a bunch of retired 55-year-olds living on wall street money, not paying for anybody else's education, or when you look at the overall cult of greed taken over the generation that is one above our generation, do we need to blame our parents, not for failure to be good parents but overill dun jens of incredible greed and why they ma vi benefitted from a good educational system in the country, they'll be god damned
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if they're going to pay for anybody else to get a good education in the country. >> look, that's a great point. i grew up up in new jersey. we played other schools in football. they didn't have money to take their books home. meanwhile, we're building football stadiums with lights to play on friday night. who cares about friday night football? we need to be better than that. it's definitely both. it's how we organize our teaching system, our public schools, which was the reason we built this great country and great middle class. also demanding more of our kids and more of ourselves. >> one other problem with the football stadium and the friday night bit is if you took that
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and use it elsewhere on teachers or books or anything crazy like that, you take away the profit incentive to build the football stadium. >> i hadn't thought of that, dylan. >> i'm not kidding. it's the second biggest spender in the world on education, yet we rank horribly. because we spend the money on physical structures and bond deals. that's about it. we have to wrap it up. i appreciate the rant. great to see you. thank you so much for driving this fine ship last week and so ably, in fact so. so, cenk, thank you so much not just for today but for last week as well. >> thank you for having me. it's great to see you back in the captain's chair. >> catch more weekdays from 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. live at the web at the young there are the particulars. coming up on "hardball" here,
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chuck todd joining chris matthews to break down the new nbc news "wall street journal" poll. but first, real solutions to our fubar economy. the author of a new book offers up his ideas in the town square. ever seen anything like it? me neither. it's beneful incredibites. uh-huh! it's just the way you like it-- made with wholesome grains, real beef, even carrots and peas. you love the smaller-size, easy-to-chew kibbles, and i love the carbohydrates for energy and protein for muscles. whoa! wait for me! ha-ha. you only think you're getting spoiled. [ woman announcing ] beneful incredibites. another healthful, flavorful beneful.
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in today's town square the u.s. economy totally fubars in the military. or you can insert another "f"
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word. robert wright outlines why. and he also talks about possible solutions. he joins us from minneapolis. it's a pleasure to see you. what is the best indication of how fubar or economy is? >> thanks for having me on, dylan. this is a great show. i heard you say suck and balls. thankfully not together. >> i didn't say suck. i think cenk used it, so your point is well made. >> i'm going to have to start to dvr the show. you said some wonderful things at the top of the hour to start to show how messed up the economy is. too big to fail is a big problem. so is the linkage of health insurance to employment. as i researched this, this book over the past five years or so, i discovered layered after layer
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of layer of problems in the economy. and spell them out in 250 pages or so. social security, and on and on and on. >> i want to go through a couple of your solutions. first i want to read a quote from the book. financial services firms paid an unprecedented $23 billion in penalties between 2000 and 2004. long before we bailed them out. if the best case scenario is you get rich and the worst is you get caught and have to pay a fine using somebody else's money, why not go for it? how pervasive do you think that is? >> it's yubiqudous.
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>> with goals of the individual investor. robert, you know the individual investor has largely abandon the stock market completely. quite rational because it's controlled by the government and large banks. how would you create the incentive that you speak of? >> well, you need to get into the nitty-gritty of executive compensation and corporate governance. some time in the late 19th century and early 20th century stockholders began to lose control of the corporations they essentially owned, and managers began to use them. >> if you realign interests between shareholder and management you solve problems. it's the misaligned interest that creates part of the exploitation. >> a large part of it.
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that's correct. >> i want to skip to rehabbing health care. i think this is -- i love this idea. i was a huge fan of this, when i read this. fubar no more. combine health and life insurance, better aligning the interest of the insurance companies and policyholders. how would that work is this. >> well, you would have one policy with a life component to pay off on your death and that would provide your health insurance. the insurer has to decide do they want to try to make you better and play claims? or if they deny coverage and you die, they have to face paying the death benefit. so that would make them, you know, more likely to pay for people's
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